Troy Jones is a father of two – Matilda 10 and Charlie 6 and an enigma in the Dad and mens health space. Finished Law School in 1998, built and sold businesses ever since. In advertising, film, web development, smartphone and tablet apps.
A published, best selling author, mainstream film maker and social entrepreneur. Regular commentator on Channel 9.
Founder of the Pregnant Pause charity, raising funds for Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders – Research and Awareness
Founder of the Real Men Project, tackling Domestic Violence, Sexting, Pornography, Alcohol, Depression, Anxiety, Body Image, Resilience, Sexualisation of Women, Mateship and Suicide with boys and their dads at schools around Australia.
ADAM: Great to be back with you the dads of the world today. You are listening to the number one dad Podcast on the internet. Adam Baldock here with today’s inspiring dad, Troy Jones. He is a father of two; Matilda aged 10 and Charlie, aged 6. But more than that, he is an enigma in the dad and men’s health space. He finished law school in ’98 and built and sold a number of businesses in the advertising, film, web, phone, and tablet apps. He is a published best – selling author with his book, Being Dad and a mainstream filmmaker and social entrepreneur. He is a regular commentator on Channel 9, founder of HR career site alife.net.au. Is the founder of pregnant pause charity, raising funds for foetal alcohol spectrum disorders and is the founder of the Real Men’s Project, which is one of the subjects we will get into today. Looking at and tackling domestic violence, sexting, pornography, alcohol, depression, anxiety, body image, resilience, and much, much more. So we got a bit to talk about, welcome to the show, Tory Jones.
TROY: Adam, that sounds good when you put it all together like that, mate.
ADAM: It does. It sounds pretty impressive, doesn’t it?
TROY: I’m saying that’ through the old man here why he’s giving he a hard time for not becoming a lawyer, which is the plan. So, yeah, that sounded all right. I haven’t wasted the last 20 years.
ADAM: Yeah, I know. It’s great mate, it’s great. So and naturally, it plays with a heavy on and now I really enjoyed your presentation at Glenora Council. Was it last week or the week before?
TROY: It was a couple of weeks ago. It was part of the Real Men’s Project talking to as you alluded to in the intro there part of the work that I do now is talking to boys at school’s around Australia. And then also I think importantly their parents I particular I guess the dads about some of the issues that the boys are going through that I think all dads know they’re out there that sort of know in the back of their mind that we at some point going to have to tackle this stuff. There’s a lot of questions from dads in particular about how the heck do we kick them off. How do I talk to a kid that’s not that interested in talking about it? Because we all remember, being boys and the last thing we wanted to hear from our dads was something to do with sex or you know pornography.
TROY: So our boys are absolutely no different, so I supposed as you know it’s a lot more I your face that it was probably when we were younger. And so we just need to do something about that. So that’s what the Real Men’s Project was. It was such a great night at Glenora Council there.
ADAM: It was a good crowd.
TROY: It was a great crowd. I think there was probably 60 or 70 people there I guess? And super engaged. Everyone was listening. What was interesting to me was sort of the socio – economic status of the parents they were sort of all over the map. It wasn’t all you know people that you would expect that might need help or people that expect you know that they wouldn’t need help or lots of money, no money; it was just all over the place, which shows that it’s a problem right across this side at the moment.
ADAM: It is. It’s broad spectrum and I think you know it’s a great place to start with today’s discussion. We’ll obviously talk about you and your fatherly expeditions but I think the subject of the Real Men’s Project –
TROY: I get so embarrassed the way you talk about other people.
ADAM: Absolutely. But I think the Real Men Project is a really good one for the listeners out there so let’s get stuck into that. Tell us about the Real Men Project. Tell us what it does, what you’re aim is and the aspirations of the business and how is it going so far.
TROY: It’s a lot of work. I guess I have always been entrepreneurial ever since I finished uni a long time ago. And I’ve always as I sort of look back most of the projects I’ve dine have been socially – minded. I didn’t deliberately do that but none of it was kind stock broking or whatever not that there’s something wrong with that. But when you look, back it’s almost always it’s sort of looking at helping young people or helping blokes become dads or that kind of stuff. The Real Men Project is kind of a collaboration of all those things. It’s sort of saying, that there is a wealth of information out there in terms of research by brain experts and neuroscientists and psychologist and psychiatrists. There’s endless amounts of research but not much of what is actually making its way through the kids or the parents. And what it is its sort of presented by some often third wheel kind of just there’s not much help at all. So my idea was to partner up with a couple of those bottom types that would go excited and I am describing them in that away. And we sort of worked through really eight sessions. So we’ve built – best six are four boy and we also have our half for girls as well which is run by a business partner of mine. But my kind in particular I got to speak to the boys. And we go through – we hit those topics you talked about in terms of pornography or self – esteem, body image, domestic violence those kinds of things. You know, all those suicide, depression all the big ugly topics. But we do it in a way that’s starts with brain research so that the kids can understand what it is that’s going on. Why they’re attracted to certain types of behaviour., why they’re attracted to risk and that they’re not alone and it’s not a bad thing that it’s actually its absolutely part of the process of going from a you know an 11- year old pre- pubescent boy to a man involves a lot of this risk taking sort of behaviour. And it’s not necessarily something that’s bad, but it can be bad if it’s not managed and understood. So, you know on some levels these kids 14, 15, year old kids have got this drive to try and find new experiences that are really met with really strong rewards inside the brain because the brain is sort of saying, “Hey go out and try new things. Go out and expand your horizons and whatever.” Back in the old days that worked really well, these days when it’s sort of sitting in classes in rows and learning about Ancient Greece or whatever, it doesn’t quite fit so well. So, it’s kind of interesting once you partner that with the pressure that mums and dads accidentally put on their kids to really do well, to have good friends, to do well at school. It causes a lot of pressure in an awkward kind of way for boys and actually the parents. So, the Real Men Project is kind of my big hope for it is that we can introduce conversations because you mentioned for a better dad. We wrote a book and made a couple of films about becoming a dad for the first tome and it was really crazy successful in Australia and the U.K. and the U.S. And what we learned from filming and writing so much was dad’s pretty much have two phrases. One is “Ask your mother” or the other is, “Let’s talk about it tomorrow.” Because dad’s you know you and me, all dads even the best most well-intentioned, well you know nicest guys we’re busy, we’re stressed, we got our own issues. But also, we’re just not – if we don’t know what we’re talking about, we tend to sort of stick our heads in the sand a little bit. And so that’s a sign pregnancy, birth, you know once if we don’t know what we’re talking about sort of defer to everybody else. Unfortunately, when our boys or our kids get to the age of 12, 13, 14, the boys in particular really need their dads. And so we encouraged the dads to – at least we teach them. We teach them this is the issues, “This is what’s going on in pornography, this is what’s going on with suicide, this is what’s going on” And by enlarge, most dads are shocked by sort of the scale of things. They have a feeling for it but the scale of it really gets them. And we sorts of here’s what we ask people to the boys about so this is a great opportunity for you to apply these lessons in talking to your boy tonight or tomorrow and really start the conversation about porn or girls or drugs or whatever it might be. Because left alone, boys were a bit of a jungle.
ADAM: Absolutely. I love that whole idea and I have done a bit of reading around by our friend, Biddulph who I think every dad sorts of turn to at some stage in his life. And yeah, I am right there with you on the basis of that whole dad were being needed from six onwards. And then the whole next phase of a number of role models and coaches and life coaches etcetera in that next phase from 12 on.
TROY: I mean we got to hand it to our generation. I mean I am 38 and you’re a bit younger than I am but look at me mate.
ADAM: It’s just a lot of Nivea.
ADAM: Actually about five years older than you mate.
TROY: I really think our generation is doing a lot of heavy lifting in this way. And our dads and grandfathers and dad’s throughout history have had a very different situation in what we got. And which is lucky because they’re boys with iPads and Wi-Fi’s and all the rest of its around. They really need us now more than ever, so you and I probably got away without having the conversation with our parents about sex or drugs, or booze or whatever because it wasn’t that dramatic. These days for example the number of boys that are either accidentally running across porn on a website on the web or deliberately looking for porn on the web is huge. And if you think about it for a second it probably makes a lot of sense. I mean when I was probably 12, 13 14 porn was either – honestly, I remember doing it. Looking it up rude words in the dictionary and getting a bit of a kick out when you see boobs or whatever, shit or whatever was in there.
ADAM: And don’t forget the putting it on the calculator.
TROY: Calculator –
TROY: I remember that. Absolutely boobies and boobs and porn was for us I mean, I remember when my mate actually from school found his dad’s stash of porno magazines and that every single boy at school would eventually have a look at them. And pretty much it was always some glamorous looking girl who just had no clothes on it was sort of reclining or whatever. All the boys see these days is completely distinct from that. It is brutal. And I studied this with some many dads and even experts and you know they’re like, “Yeah, yeah, yeah I know its brutal.” But you actually look you know dads – if you do that look, you may have already looked you’re maybe completely familiar with that. And I am not against pornography as an adult at all but what I think is most interesting is how these boys with no guidance at the age of 10 or 11 that they’re this sort of innocent-ish fist steps and try something sneakily into an iPad because someone said something or whatever. They can really quickly be seeing some brutal stuff. And the most concerned part of it for me if you watch it you know in particular sort of forced, aggressive type of stuff. And we’re not just talking about people being tied up. We’re talking you know girls getting – forced to do things to the extent where they’re dry reaching, and throwing up as part of the thing they’re doing which is terrific and that sort of everybody is enjoys it and the girls at the end of the video say, “Yeah, it was great. That was so – so awesome.” And boys are going to get a view of what think is good and what sex is and what intimacy whether or not that’s going to roll. And its kind of too early to tell from a scientific point of view what impact this is having on those boys long – term because it is so new, the technology. But, my view is that we cannot build walls high enough to stop our boys from looking at it. I talk to 8, 9, 10 boys around the country and I say, “How many of you boys have got a net nanny or a software protecting thing on your computer.” And most 10’s go up because a lot of schools are pretty aggressive about pushing that at the sort of aged 8 and 9 boys. But then you say also ,’How long does it take you to get around that?” And they say five seconds. So I think when you think about it, it’s probably you think about the skills of 12, 13, 14 year old boys online they make- there’s always some loophole, they’ll find it and they’ll see it. So, the issue becomes if we can’t stop pornography from happening which is not going to happen, if we can’t stop those boys from seeing it, the only real option we got left is discussing it with them. With the young fellows and saying, “This is what it is, this is how it fits in society,, how do you feel about it? How do you – what d you think?” And I know as a dad with a young fellow. I know I don’t know if I am looking forward to have that conversation but is absolutely something that has to happen otherwise, he is alone and facing this kind of stuff and making up his own decisions and I think as dad’s we’re kind of risking that. And so much in the side of safety and the rest of it is about this kind of predatorily people on line and I absolutely agree it’s there. But there’s a lot of it which is sort of available. You don’t need a credit card, you don’t need a, you got to only need to lie about your birth date and you can see this stuff. And it’s not just porn. I mean, you can go and see terrorist stuff where people are getting their head chopped off for or whatever within five seconds and things. I don’t think we can build a wall big enough to stop our kids seeing it which leaves us in a position of having to decide how else to get to the sense and let little genie out or are we going to sort of suck it up and have the conversation with it.
ADAM: Absolutely. And some great points there Troy,. I mean it is prevalent and the only way to manage it is to take it head on. And if we’re going to stick our heads in the sand well, yeah, we probably should be walking away from being fathers if that’s the case because that’s all part of the job description.
TROY: And I think the good thing – I mean I spoke to a guy whose adult son is about to get married. And he – he told me, “Look, I really regret not having – he managed to go through the life of his son without really ever talking about it. And he sort of was happy with that until he son recently just got engaged. And he it was all as a surprise and he didn’t’ realise how serious they were and he sort of expressed a bit of – actually quite a bit of regret that he missed that level of connectedness with his kids. That he haven’t been brave enough to have the conversation that now he – he missed out on being involved in all the ups and downs of the kid’s relationships and being able to be a supportive dad. And you know he just felt like he missed and so that’s the flipside is if you can get over the embarrassment and the awkwardness of it, it could lead to a really strong relationship with your kid which is what you want.
ADAM: Absolutely. And I think that if we had to spend a lot of time involved in the Melbourne Men’s Group which has seen some significant growth in the last few months. To the extent that we used to sit a room and they’d be only 10 of us but now there’s 40 plus on each session and that’s just happened in recent months. And so I think it shows I real need out there for authentic relationships in the male domain. But at the same time, a lot of the the discussion is about the connection or the lack thereof that these men had with their fathers. And how that’s affected them now later in life and how they are now approaching that with their own sons and daughters for that matter. And how that whole generational change is being flowed through. So it’s really interesting stuff.
TROY: Its huge. I mean – I mean I love it. There’s so many times I get annoyed when I sort of see dads get popped down. I mean in our community men are pretty much either you know aggressive old people or they’re goofy idiots that don’t know which way the baby’s onesie goes or you know that simple stuff of putting nappy on their head or you know, just its one or the other. There’s no real awareness I mean beyond other than a Brad Pitt or whoever who’s obviously seems to be doing pretty well.
ADAM: Yeah, well he’s faultless.
TROY: Yeah. Whereas the rest of us are kind of fit into one category or the other. And the truth is I don’t know – I mean I am sure there are plenty out there but I don’t know about that. I mean I don’t know anyone out there that isn’t at least doing better than the average one generation ago. And I think there’s so much room for optimism and positivity around space where people like you are doing some amazing stuff. There’s the men’s groups, there’s all sort of bits and pieces that are happening and encouraging other dads to get involved. And as we know and I guarantee everyone of your listeners knows that this is not just a obligation like it’s sort of put out sometimes to be dad and you know whatever. I guarantee each one of us is poor has got less time with our maids, doesn’t have the car that we used to have. A bit greyer that we used to be but not one of us really when pushed comes to shove that we change it for all the money in the world. So, I think there’s such a personal benefit to be going from being a good dad. You know, yes you’re doing – your son is better off or your daughter is better off, no doubt . But I also think that there’s the other side of the coin is that we are better off by having been good dads as well.
ADAM: Absolutely. There’s some great points in there and I really love the work you are doing with the Real Men Project.
TROY: Thank you mate.
ADAM: Now were going to talk a bit more about the Real Men Project as we work through some of it, but I think you’ve done a great segue in there talking about dads and how we’ve changed and we’re all doing a little better. So, tell me what type of father are you, Troy?
TROY: I am very involved. I mean everyone else is sort of growing my business back. I was young for probably at the same time I was at uni and I remember really distinctly having a thought. I sat outside my office in Adelaide and I looked up of one the buildings. One of the bigger buildings in Adelaide, not that that’s a particularly hard task.
ADAM: Yeah, both of them.
TROY: Again I looked and I saw a big sign up on the wall you know state bank or whatever it was, you know the big neon sign at top. And I said, “Oh, probably been one day you know have my business name up there and something to be remembered by.”A sort of thought that went through my head. And about 30 second later, the next thought coming on was, “Yeah, but as soon as you stop paying the bills, it’s going to be gone.” At it really dawned on me almost that one of the most important things we can do in our lives is actually be a good parent because you’re living some kind of legacy, you’re living an impact on the world and that struck me. And I reckon was about, I remember that really, really hit me hard between the eyes. And so, that sort of how I learned how to be a dad. I’ve been really involved form the start. Sometimes in ways that weren’t particularly obvious like making a film about pregnancy and birth while my wife was pregnant which is certainly one way to be involved.
TROY: And in saying that, saying that globally. But you know day to day for example my daughter who’s in year four in our of Sydney School they got a – they’re part of some film festival for truck fest junior and I have got in and worked with the class on every Friday afternoon this term …
TROY: … to write a script with them and help them develop an intellectual thing which we will actually start filing tomorrow. And sort of I think for kids that age, it’s not about having a good relationship with your kids but also know their friend and know her friends parents and sort of be involved in that way. So, I am not one for you know school councils and things. I am not much one of structured kind of a person, I’m much more of a lunatic, fringe bloke. But I love sort of giving it and doing creative things with my kids. And whether that is helping out my son’s rugby team or Matilda’s play or you know that kind of thing. I like to use my skills rather than just sort of fit in to crazy thing slots which actually now that I say that is exactly how I lived my life. So, its – well it’s not necessarily a skill or something that I should be proud off but it’s definitely what I do. I love it, I really enjoy it. Ever since Matilda was born I have taken one day off a week of my work to be the at – home dad.
TROY: Which I was really proud off at that time. And then probably about four or five years ago and when the global financial crisis was going on, I was a stay at home dad for about 18 months working at home while the kids slept and napped and night time and that kind of thing. But there absolutely my most cherished memory now. I sit around and look at the photos from when Charlie was one or two or whatever. Little videos we made or games we played. Certainly, what I think is highlights of my last five years.
ADAM: Love it, love it. And I particularly love what you said there around getting involved and their ones always a good one and a number of dads raised that. But the extra point that you made there is getting to know you from your children’s friends which is a really important one. And I think as they come up into these teenage brackets and from what we’ve discussed prior to …
TROY: I think so.
ADAM: .. that question, yeah.
TROY: Also knowing the parents I think it’s important to so that if someone you know, I love the idea that one of the kids sort of like at least someone like they can speak to their own parents about something. But like – just giving them an option for someone that they could come and say, “Hey, I got – I am feeling sad” or whatever might be the case. But also and it’s a long shot but if that happens you know or if one of my kids spoke to some other dad or mum that they would have the network to confidently come to me and say, “Look, this is what I have – Charlie is a talking about. You might want to think about how to deal with it.” That’s the kind of you know the village stuff, the way that it takes a village to raise a kid type of logic. But it is not much more that saying that, it’s not much more that sort of picking up kids every now and then saying [unclear – 23:33] introducing yourself, and knowing enough about little Judy or little Juliana that you can sort of have a chat with the mum and just have a little bit of a conversation. And the other big thing is introducing yourself to the kids’ teachers. You know being interested, how is – you know there is always the parent – teachers nights but what I found with that is that the parent – teacher nights either playing for the teacher because they’re going to go and sit through you know 50 kids, parents or whatever it is. If you catch them outside of that time, you know when you just sort of they’re just ones – one day you pick-up your kids and say, “Hey, would you mind if I come and catch a bit five minutes just talk about how little junior is going.” It’s so interested and grateful and at that point you can sort of start talking to teachers about what your skills are so that, you know, “I am really great at gardening or whatever. You know to some like if I can help out. And Oh, my gosh, you know I’m actually going to do a thing on Friday that is maybe you can come in and talk to the kids?” It’s there for you and again it’s just the dad thing to you know kind of sometimes leave it. leave it to the mums or the nannies to sort of make it work. And you know, again, I think you’re missing out. It’s not just the kids missing out and not kids the other kids but you the bloke, is missing out.
ADAM: Indeed, right. And I had guy showing [unclear – 24:57] on previously and he has the email address of his teacher and they talked fairly regularly. So I have actually taken a leaf out of his book. But the bit I loved was when he uses this tool to get or to have broke a conversation with his kids because he says, “Oh, you know, you can tell me yourself or I’ll ask you r teacher.” And he starts typing on the computer and they usually come out with whatever’s going on, so –
TROY: Yeah, I’ve actually – I got involved on that myself. I used to do Santa back in the old days, “Well, Dad!” you know Charlie, mate you don’t want me to call Santa do you? “Oh, no, no” he’d pull his head in straight away.
ADAM: Love it.
TROY: But nowadays it’s you know this is a parlour, “Whoa, oh, God” This is the biggest – the biggest stick in my book is we might have to talk to Mr. Parlour about you know this kind of behaviour. Whoa!” he pulls his head and [murmuring]
ADAM: I love Mrs. Parlour.
TROY: I couldn’t agree more. Just the mention, just the mention of the name is enough. It might be a big problem the modern smack.
ADAM: Yeah, yeah.
TROY: Just the possible take of smack down is well enough.
ADAM: All right there you go, dads of the world. One of the – I’ve interviewed dad yesterday and we were talking about finding the currency that allows you to undertake some discipline and or what have you.
TROY: I tell you what, it has worked every time. I reckon I must have used that. That’s the nuclear option in my house. And both kids you know different school, different teacher that must have so much. You know I remember, my kids are saying that we go – I go snow skiing with my kids occasionally every a coupe, of years. And the way they – I have tried to teach them how to ski and the level of disrespect from the kids is unbelievable. Just know you know your own kids is not listening, “Shut up Dad!” you know? Aah, fall over, “This sucks” you know whatever. You put them in a class they are angelic. They follow instructions, they listen, you know? So I don’t know what they do but I tell you what, that third – party kind of power broker it’s not a bad thing.
ADAM: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah my daughter dropped her lunchbox yesterday and it shattered and I was able to tape it enough to that sort of she can take her lunch yesterday. But I said to her, “When you finished your lunch just throw it in the rubbish bin and we’ll buy a new one tomorrow.” And she goes, “I can’t throw it in the rubbish bin dad, you’re not allowed to throw it in the rubbish bin at school. And I said, “I am sure they mean it differently, you’d be all right.” And, “No, I am not going to throw that one. I’ll bring it home, I’ll throw it out at home.” Okay.
TROY: There are rules. I mean they know all about which Maxi card to take and with this the shooters and what date is. You know Matilda knows that – my daughter knows that it’s you know netball by next Thursday afternoon. You know it’s absolutely rock – solid about which socks and you don’t know the half of it. Which colour of hair band she can have. They got you know, they got a work in these schools and they know they’re not hitting them with sticks like they used to in our days so they got something going on.
ADAM: Yeah, dead right.
TROY: It’s like I don’t know what it is.
ADAM: Yeah, yeah.
TROY: But I am happy I’m not those. You know, I am sure the government’s cross it. I am saying –
ADAM: Yeah, hopefully the government knows you.
TROY: Yeah, I’m sure.
ADAM: That’s something – it’s not a cross everything else –
TROY: Our politicians and governments are absolutely rock solid, am sure. I am sure we got nothing to worry about.
ADAM: Absolutely, absolutely.
TROY: Nah, let them do their thing.
ADAM: Classic. Okay, so that leads us to under the next question which is around your biggest struggle you know? You’ve got a 10 – year old kid, you got 10 years of experience, what’s been your biggest struggle in fatherhood so far?
TROY: Oh mate, I suppose every dad that’s what’s so interesting is that I am sure that everyone has had these. My biggest one was my partner and I got divorced about three years ago. And we sort of split and went different directions. It was sort of over any particular thing, it just wasn’t working, there’s no gigantic blow up it just – we were both like you know, is this what we want? How it’s going and it kind of get some frustration talk of situation. So coming to terms with that has probably been my biggest struggle. I am really proud of – well you know what, I had a big relationship drama a long time ago and one of my best mates told me in that he said, “You want to make sure that when you look back on this you’ll be proud that you acted like a gentleman in the face of some real bullshit.” If you don’t mind me using the word.
ADAM: Go for it.
TROY: And I – remember that really, landed with me and so I kind of used that ever since in relationship type stuff, So, this one I think it was bigger stakes and it was all very complicated and accessed and kids and custody and all that kind of gauged. It’s been three years but I do – I am proud of myself. But even in the face of some pretty tough stuff looking back I feel like I handled it really well. So that struggle was to try and to live up to that standards that I have set for myself about what a gentleman is. And so, I think that probably lends itself as we talking about Real Men Project. You know in the toughest situation. Everybody can be a great person when everything is going their way when things go wrong how are you then? And you know when the chips are down what sort of bloke are you? And I think the struggle is where you really find out about yourself an it’s super hard when you’re in it and there’s no almost no kind of – no hearing in that sentence when you’re in it. But if you have that kind of guide principle I guess a little bit that the struggle is to stand up to that image of who you want to be, as a person, and I think you’re going to be okay. So, I’ve certainly put on some weight in the last couple of years because that’s been an answer that I’ve decided its good. Interestingly, I’ve grown a lot more nose hair then I used to but that’s that.
ADAM: Do you think that’s related to stress? Could be.
TROY: Yeah, my point is going to that. There you go, we’ll give you a bit of a support with some extra nose hair. And in general, I think – you know I think I am better for it. You know like I am writing an article at the moment for one of the big baby websites about the best thing about being a single dad. And I tell you what, there are a lot and it takes you a little while to sort of recognise the benefits but it’s not that I advocate it. But, in the event you find yourself in that situation, it’s not doom and gloom. There are kind of plenty of good upsides to being a single dad to which again you have to find out for yourself if you’re in that situation. But the struggle does have its upside.
ADAM: Well if that article is not an exclusive to that website, I’d love to put it up on mine as a link.
TROY: No worries, no worries.
ADAM: Excellent. Because the other one I was going to ask you for was a copy of your slides from the Glenora presentation.
TROY: Uh, yeah, well mate I have actually – if you contact – if like any of your listeners I am sure throughout you can contact Adam and get in touch with, it’s actually with the council. So if you would contact the girl from the council I am sure you can get your hands on those slides.
ADAM: Great, thanks mate. Excellent.
TROY: And I have made more – [murmuring]
ADAM: Yeah, great. Yeah, we digressed anyway. So, let’s talk about now the balance aspects of life. And you obviously were married to a great wife at the time. Well during that time what do you think was the key to maintaining that relationship?
TROY: That’s a good question. I – the truth is, I don’t know if we had a good relationship. We were really kind of very determined to make it work and to try really hard and be prepared to our kids. I think what we didn’t do and this is probably the answer to your question a slightly different way that we should is make time for each other. Just sort of see I think what we do is – it’s much as my fault as anything I think was that we saw the kids as the work as the life and each other was kind of a function of that rather than you know the person that we used to enjoy hanging out with the other kids. And so you know, both of us will be tired. You know one of the the things that I saw was super romantic it helpful and useful was that I would take the kids and that would be the thing that I would do for her because she can go out, have the afternoon of or go away for the weekend or whatever it might be. Without actually really going, who the hell- lets concentrate on connecting and staying in touch and doing all of those things. And really I think that was probably the death of the relationship was in that we didn’t do that. We still – I think we saw the writing on the wall about a year out a year before the finish. We started doing things together. We’re both kind of sporty people, we started doing some you know cross fit together. And the last thing we did together actually was actually we went overseas to work with a couple of charities over there. but I think it was too little too late. And I would say that’s absolutely the advice. And that – I often wonder mate about the difficulty of being a really involved dad. Because I think it challenges a lot of women. I think in the old days – this is my theory I haven’t really tested it out of research but I am starting to think a lot more about it.
ADAM: Yeah, go on. s
TROY: Is that sort of – back in the old days you would have a very sort of set boundaries. Everyone would know what their jobs were, everyone know where they fit. You know the mum would have to say about this and that and the other, the dad would be about making money, talking the kids to park and school, you know whatever. And everyone would know how it all fits. I think these days it’s not only complicated for us blokes now that we are more involved and we got work and we want to be a dad and we want to have mates and all those sorts of things. I think it’s also difficult maybe – its more difficult for the ladies for the ladies out there because they don’t have that clear cut idea of which is their job and which is our job and how it all fits together. And I wonder whether the more – the closer we get that to a 50 – 50 kind of split just the messier that line gets and the better you would need to be at managing a relationship so that it works. Because I think it’s hard for everybody in this flex sort of generation where it’s really different from how our parents did it, well most parents did it. So my dad was the working guy and mum’s a stay at home mum and I think most and you know probably fairly typical. Whereas if you look at it now that’s just not the case. So, I would say at the end of the day to focus on the relationship. In fact it seems what have to be on that terms. There’s a great bloke in there who says, “Being a great dad is fairly easy – for him. He says, “Look, you know being a great dad to my kids is fairly easy” what he finds difficult or what most guys I think do find difficult is to be a great partner to your wife or your girlfriend or whatever it is in a new situation. Because thing changed so much when you have the baby going but for me, when the baby is born you go from being equal first I a selfish kind of partnership to sort of dropping down the list to third where your job is sort of support the life and the baby. That’s the kind of sensation that I had. I remember I was going mate, I am from Adelaide originally, and I remember when we visited my parents in Adelaide after Matilda was born and mum was also outing the bags in the back, in the boon of the car in the hatchback – type of thing. As I was sort of loading the bags from the airport into the car mum was sort of gooing and gagring, arguing and what is going to Matilda. And she was trying to while she was making faces at matildas she was trying to shut the boot. Shut the boot of the car and for some reason it wasn’t shutting and she kept on clunking it on something. I think she was clunking it on was my head because my was in the way of you know the walk. And she was just trying to put it down and I was like, “Jesus,” I sort of became this kind of the thing that’s blocking the door from getting shut. So, it’s – I think that’s a real wakeup call,. Instead of going, “Shit|, you know who am I? How do I fit?” and I think those blokes will navigate that well earning from a much better relationships that most. And I think in a way that’s kind of my job in sort of communicating a lot of this as one the guys who got it wrong. Just as I look, this is where I fell over. You know I have done a lot of things right but I fell over in X, Y, Z way and it’s lead to the situation. Having said that, again I think we’ve done by focusing the flaw in the relationship at that time ahs lead to a really successful transition to us both living separately and having our own lives. Because I think both kids saw us as interchangeable. They were perfectly happy spending time with me as they were with my ex. They were perfectly happy having their needs met from either of us and really I think myself, my ex had such a low – level relationship that when it wasn’t there it wasn’t that dramatic. It was emotional and difficult but it wasn’t such a turmoil. I mean you know I feel so much for those dads 30 years ago have this trust in them, they haven’t changed a nappy, they haven’t been involved as a dad.
TROY: How you go to having kids for the weekends or whatever, I mean that would be hard work for both the dad and the kids to go, “Oh, jeez I got to go to dad’s house.” You know, so tis tough but it’s increasingly reality and then again you come back to that idea to sort of like if you go through it. Well you know someone is going through it that was the other big thing for me. I had a mate who was in Melbourne who every day I reckon for six months rang me up and said, “Mate hey how you doing what’s going on? you know? How are you?” that kind of a support from a mater was incredible. And just making sure everything is okay taking a while and I had the opportunity to talk about stuff. So it’s not only – if you’re in that situation and one of your mate is, it’s a pretty right time for blokes to fall off the wagon and start to make terrible decisions. And so if you can you know thrust yourself in that situation sort of keep everyone moving that it will mean more to them.
ADAM: Fantastic and thanks for being so candid on that one.
TROY: Oh, that’s the way to go.
ADAM: That’s a good change to Troy because most of the dads I’ve interview are solidly within their relationship. And whether they believe they’re in solid ground or not, you know it’s good to have a dad from the other side that can go back and look at it in retrospect and see where you went wrong. And that’s a lot better way to help dads that trying to speculate to what you are doing right and wrong when you’re in a relationship.
TROY: Its’ kind of that facebook thing isn’t where you know everybody else’s life are awesome. And what presents you the press released version of their own lives. And I don’t think it helps you know where it is. No one’s life is probably is exactly is as good what they sort of protect or present it as being, so it’s tough to do. But I think the more we can be honest with each other this is us, I am an accountant supporter or whatever it might be, that the moral is that you can get some support.
ADAM: Yeah, well if you’re accountant support you need a lot of support,
TROY: Well I am in the cross mate, I am like that in the moment.
ADAM: Good, good.
TROY: I am hanging in there. It could have gone all shit if there was this way again. This could be a very different interview next week.
ADAM: Yeah, yeah well it’s all pretty final I reckon.
TROY: Well, I am just living for the moment mate.
ADAM: Hey let’s stay with this theme of balance and we’ve been talking about the Real Men Project and everything else that you’ve done. So, how do you balance career and building all these businesses and your family during this time.
TROY: Look, I think the first rule I had was making sure that I put my kids first. That’s kind of again in retrospect what I did. Like I just sort of went – I’ve got this – I didn’t just want to be the dad that come home from work and had that hour before they go to bed. And then time of the weekend. I didn’t want to be that. So I supposed looking back, what I’ve really done is kept. Whenever I had the kids to myself I have eliminated work, so I guess like most people in our aged bracket in the facebook play the role, that was kind of hard, like I sort of probably over did that early. You know you look at smart phones and things that kind of burst into our lives as well. You know sort of so things are difficult you know where there’s twitter or Angry Birds or just you know photos or whatever it might be. I think the balance is to make sure that you set yourself in what you see and it will be different for everybody. But what you see is a minimum amount of time you want to spend literally with your kids. Not sitting on the couch where everyone is using their iPad but where you know there’s no iPad where we are. Bush walking or we sit around playing Monopoly or kicking a foot in the river or whatever might be. And I think sitting that is the rule. I mean sort of saying, right. So if I’ve done that you know, I got that part protected now what’s the rest of life look like? And I think that’s probably the way to do it. I am kind of – In terms of business, how munch set up a business’s I have recognised what I am good at and what I am not good at and I sort of do the bits that I good at and I delegate the other parts. So I am good at that bi picture kind of thinking and sort of creative idea development
TROY: When it gets down to the details and who’s managing the shop on Thursday afternoon, that’s not my sort of gain. So, I make sure that in terms of you know the advice in terms of that keeping it balanced and it’s really bit of advice I think is to set yourself a prize per hour. And say that my price per hour is 30 bucks an hour or something like that or whatever it is. And so to sit and fold these A-4 pieces of paper into envelopes, yes it saves me 25 bucks because I am not getting someone else to do it, but it will take me four hours. So, it’s cheaper to outsource it because my time is worth 30 bucks an hour, it will cost me $30.00 to get someone to do it simple economic choice. When you think of things like that you can really get a feel of what you are doing and I think that’s how I’ve done it. I think it’s just sort of recognising my time, quality of time that I’ve got with my kids and it retrospect should have done more with the missus. But, you know, talking to you before and I think you are on the right track the same as I am and the consistent thanks for my wife career wife has been that I’ve done what I loved. And that is one good advice from my nanny gave when I was a lot younger was she said, “If you love what you do you’d never have to work a day in your life.” And I, yeah and I was like, “Oh, “ you know what, that is what I think if I didn’t enjoy what I was doing and that’s not to say that some days don’t suck but if broadly speaking you don’t enjoy what you’re doing, get out because you’re not going to be efficient. You’re not going to enjoy your life, you’re not going to enjoy your time with the kids. You know you sort of be [unclear – 55:30] So that’s probably – they’re probably the key reasons. I mean take one but there’s probably there was three, three reasons or three ways of balance growing the business and the family stuff.
ADAM: Brilliant. And some great advice there and you know I am a big advocate for that. I recently undertook a thing called the KPI Method where some of the listeners may have heard of. KPI stands for Key Person of Influence. And it’s a super expensive course that you can do but it looks like it’s very valuable. I haven’t have done the course I just went along to a session, an introductory session and they talked about exactly that. So it’s fitting into when particularly you’re building business and trying to balance family and so forth is that functional versus valuable time and spending and the valuable time is obviously the things that are contributing to your hourly rate and giving you some dollars and the functional time is the stuff that is costing you money. So we were obviously be in the valuable time at all times so, or as much as we can.
TROY: And the other thing I mean exactly in that way is what we show our kids you know is important and how we want them to what we want them to learn from us. And I think often we forget all the kids aren’t paying attention or they’re sort of looking the other way. Where really they do see directly through us and they’re copying us and they’re thinking about that’s – I mean, I don’t know about you but I remember my dad – it stung me now when I look back and do the math. You know when I was 13 year old and I think of my dad. He’s the same age as I am now and I find that unbelievable. I got really, really struggle to see myself as the guy that I remember seeing, you know what I mean? Sort of me kids seeing me like that and I find that just about impossible to imagine. And my dad was larger than life, tough as nails, knew everything, strong, you know all this stuff. And I just can’t really get my heard around that time. So remember, of course I do. And hopefully with different strengths and skills and whatever but they would see me in exactly the same way. And again, in that single dad thing, that was another huge part of it was when the ex hooks up with a new guy. The difficulties around that when your kids are spending half of their time with some other bloke, that’s a hugely challenging thought. But once you start to recognise just how important our dad is or was to you at that age bracket, it’s not like no one is going to stand to that. No one is going to step in that space. So, if –even then I have you know there’s always mum’s boyfriend but they’re certainly not dad on the other side that’s the same dad that’s been there for ever since one minute old., So, you know that sort of thing being aware of this your own value. In a way is to recognise that you need a lot more than the menial garbage that you waste in your time doing. And I also want to make someone, sometimes I can lot of sort of calmness or solace or something like that in that sort of quite time or that part of your lives and that’s fine. But I think the trick there is recognizing that’s what you’re doing, you know? Some people are going to keep the [unclear – 48:52] or they go to yoga or whatever might be. If you’re thinking is finding other ways to do the menial stuff in your business great but make sure you recognise that is your down time that is your break. It’s not something that you should be adding to your stress and your hassles.
ADAM: I couldn’t’ agree more, I couldn’t’ agree more. And so you mention stress there so let’s keep it rolling.
ADAM: And I want to approach this question on a double front considering what you do in the Real Men Project because we’re dealing now with what’s your biggest worry when it comes to your children. But I am interested in your biggest worry Troy but I am also interested in the themes that you see coming from the people that you deal with.
TROY: I suppose my biggest worry, it’s a great question isn’t it? I think my biggest worry would be I don’t know. Jeez, that’s a tough question. I mean in terms of personal I guess I am too optimistic to have a worry. I mean you know I worry about a million things but in terms of anything really significant. Although, I do remember – this so a bit too much sharing I suppose but I do remember a couple of years ago it was actually when my ex was super heavily pregnant. I saw some add about you know checking out yourself for lumps and that kind of things. I remember doing a bit of self -examination and think, “Oh, my God there’s a lump there.” I tell you what, the panic involved in that you know the moment of focus was huge. Instantly broke out a sweat, instantly – you know that kind of stuff. And I think health probably like making sure your health is okay. I have really let myself go in the last couple of years in terms of health and fitness and that kind of stuff. I suppose that’s probably many biggest worry and that’s going to come back and bite me in a really significant way. But, in terms of the youth and the people we work with there, I am seeing a really gigantic issue around two things; one is that private schools they’re big clients of mine in terms of the Real Men Project. So we have kids that are paying – families of kids paying $25,000 – $30,000 a year in some circumstances to go to a school. That’s fairly unsustainable I think. That’s a huge, huge burden and I think that’s part one of the problem is that the kids that are in those circumstances are faced with a lot of pressure that our society goes ,we’re not interested in helping the rich kids but those kids. And tall puppy syndrome and I get it, Australia hates that stuff but I really think there’s a gigantically serious looming problem and its either going to manifest itself in either these kids getting violent, these kids sort of really losing their way with depression or suicide and that kind of stuff. Alternatively, further down the track that they kind of getting the wrong idea about the world is bad and what their skills and talents and advantage is all about and where they should go and how they can sort of make the most of their lives. The world be to just be suited success for and make money for shareholders and that’s the entire purpose of life. But the other side is the risk of low self-esteem kind of driven by media issues so. I spoke on the other night as you know Glenora Council about the body image stuff where people really hard on themselves by having a look that everybody is looking at them. When you add the kind of semi – soft-core porn that is around particularly in girls magazines around perfumes or a handbag ads or shoe ads that kind of stuff or six packs for boys or super muscle-ly stuff. Ultimately, when you add Photoshop and the rest of it it’s completely unattainable but there’ going to be a whole generation of kids that feel bad about how they look how they feel. When that gets mixed in with the social media kind of pressure that we see. I think there’s a real – there’s a looming issue in terms of what happens then? What if you have a group of people that are kind of low in self – esteem have options in terms of high disposable income, in terms of they can buy drugs, they can do all of that kind of stuff. I think we’re facing an issue and nobody is really looking and I wonder it’s going to end up in a real spike and things like domestic violence or ice or drugs or suicide those kind of things. Because there’s a lot of people talking about it, governments, TV stations, those kind of things talking about it. A very few people actually prepared to do the hard yard to actually get involve and make a difference. With the state government sort of saying, “Oh, it’s too expensive or whatever.” I just have a feeling that it’s not being watched as carefully as it should be. And I think the kids are going to wear that and I think it all sort of comes back from that pornography. Almost a fiction life that we kind of letting our kids walk into.
ADAM: Yeah, wow that’s all angles that I am sure a lot of the dads of the world haven’t even thought about right?
TROY: Yes sir.
ADAM: Yeah, that’s fine. You have provoked some thought and that’s what Fired Up Dads is all about that is information, thinking and being better dads.
TROY: Nothing get better much as sticking your head in the sand out.
ADAM: Correct mate, correct. So good work so far Troy.
TROY: Thank you mate.
ADAM: And we got one question before we head into the power dads’ round.
ADAM: If you could change one thing in your life to help you be a better dad, what would that be?
TROY: I would – what will I do? I would – you know what actually I would do is I would do less for my kids. I am a sucker. I am – and it’s working with these neurosciences and stuff that the Real Men Project working up the last couple of. I have been learning in the last few or so that what I thought being a great dad was kind of doing everything for your kids. Making sure you know picking things up, dropping stuff off, getting them cleaned up you know all that sort of stuff. Making sure they have everything they want, everything they need, and it’s always there and they say, “I’m bored” “And I go, “Oh, hey hang on, here we go. Here’s the Nintendo or here’s the” whatever, this is what’s going to have a run . I am sort of been learning in the last 10 months, 12 months is boredom for kids is good. Letting kids deal with stuff themselves is good. Letting kids making kids do things on their own even you know obviously without danger you know we ‘re removing that kind of stuff but sort of saying, “Hey, you know what, you do it. I know you’re frustrated, I know you’re stuck. I know that you know I can come up and help you and we can fix it and it will be done in five second. But I want you to be frustrated, I want you to be bored, I want you to try it after you have given up. Just hang in there and do that kind of stuff. So, I think if I could have told myself something 10 years ago it would be to explain that you know, if the kid leaves his fortunes at home you don’t go buy a new pair, you know? If the thing breaks we’ll try and fix it rather go and get a new one. We don’t know how to fix well lets learn how to fix it. So, be a bit tougher. I think no less loving, no less kind, there’s no less involved but certainly not jumping on them if there is a problem. If we have I would be a better dad.
ADAM: And a great tip. And a bit of a reverse one. We haven’t had that in reverse. But we’re getting a lot of good stuff out of you today, Troy. So I am super impressed.
TROY: Never know it’s going to come out. I didn’t even know I would stand that so,-
ADAM: Love it, love it. Hey, so its Power Dads round now and we are six short questions with equally short answers. Are you ready, Troy?
ADAM: Favourite dad toy?
TROY: Short answer –
ADAM: What was that?
TROY: Short answers aren’t normally my thing mate but I will focus.
ADAM: All good, all good. Favourite dad toy and why?
TROY: My Vespa, it’s the greatest I own.
ADAM: Love it. Recommended book. It’s got to be yours isn’t it?
TROY: Oh my book, yes Being Dad by Troy Jones, it’s terrific.
ADAM: Yeah, fantastic.
TROY: It’s hysterical. Mainly for pregnant blokes but in general I think it’s great advice for lasting relationship. Read it at least once. And don’t share it with your mate, buy a copy.
ADAM: Excellent. Yeah, yeah exactly.
TROY: Bastards, you bastards share it.
ADAM: You got to keep Troy food on the table.
TROY: Oh, I bought you book and I handed it around whenever I hand it” Mate, that’s not the idea at all.
ADAM: Love it. And what about another book Troy that is not yours. You got any others that you’re favourite?
TROY: Uh, you know I like my science – fictiony type of stuff. A little bit of time travel and like a bit of that kind of thing. I’ll come back to you. Let’s keep going, I’ll tell you the title one n a second.
ADAM: Good as gold. How do you ensure time for yourself?
TROY: Uh, being a single dad you get a lot of time for yourself, so that’s been a way that I have done that.
ADAM: Yeah, that’s a good one.
TROY: Yeah, because it’s true.
ADAM: This is the fastest Power Dads round I’ve done I got to say. We’re halfway through let’s keep it rolling. What about an innovative trick to use that may help dads when they are disciplining their children.
TROY: Oh, it figures, you added discipline. I was going to say my favourite trick of being a dad is doing my daughter’s hair before school with a vacuum cleaner.
TROY: It’s absolutely the number one trick that I’ve learned about being dad. So you sort of suck all the hair out by the vacuum cleaner while you put the ponytail, the elastic thing over the gun bit and then as you withdraw the gun bit and the hair comes out you sort of have the hair gets held in place like that. That’s true. I think in terms of discipline one of thing I think I did with a young kid which I love was I got a sort of transparent kind of – I ripped this off from a mate of mine but it was a transparent kind of tube, you now? Like and you pour oil and water and a whole heap of glitter and so it was just a really amazing looking shiny, sparkly thing that was full. It’s like a – you know this lava lamp kind of thing but not but it’s quite different. And so when it was time for timeouts or they were freaking out or whatever and they needed five minutes to cool off, I would send them to their bed but with the special little thing so it was kind of something for them to be interested in and think about. Having said that we made advice before and maybe I am eliminating the ability for them to think about what they’ve done and all that but I don’t know. It was still the truth at the time, certainly coming down.
ADAM: Love it. They would be a nice calming trick so that is a little beauty.
TROY: Yeah, made it myself.
TROY: It wasn’t really hard. I was excited to drop that one. You know, something this good.
ADAM: Yeah, you got me excited and I wasn’t even there. So, good work, good work.
TROY: And one more thing, one more thing I may have another one. We use to have – because you everyone would have the naughty corner or the naughty chair or whatever.
With Matilda I didn’t go to do that because I couldn’t be bothered but in hindsight I think it was really good. Was we had the good tent. So we have this little Dora the Explorer tent you know like a little pop – up shelter thing. And when Matilda wanted to tell me something or she wanted to have a minute with me or whatever it was just me and her, mummy was never allowed in that. If she wanted to have the minute with me to talk about something or I would want to tell her that she had done something really well or you know praise or that kind of thing. We go in there, we have a quiet little chat about it, and that was the good tent, so it’s kind of the positive cousin of the naughty corner.
ADAM: Love it, love it.
TROY: Yah, you never know mate.
ADAM: Two tricks for the price of one Troy. Mate, well I am super impressed. Fantastic. There’s two questions to go, do you have a family tradition that you maintain?
TROY: We do. Christmas day we have a tradition where everybody buys in addition to a gift that he buys for someone else, you have 20 bucks limit whereby you buy just a cool gift, just a generic gift. Not for someone in particular but it’s called generic gift. Everyone around the table gets a number, depending on what number you are like a numerical order you will – all the presents wrapped gathered in the middle of the table. Everybody gets a number in order you pick at random a present and then you open it and then the next person number picks their before they unwrap it they can choose to steal my gift or unwrap their own.
TROY: And so that is a sort of game where great grandmother’s stealing chocolates form the four – year old kid and it’s a pretty good fun, so that’s our tradition.
ADAM: Love it, love it.
TROY: It’s a good game.
ADAM: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We used to do that on at work for the Kris Kringle at the Christmas party. Yeah, so it is a good one. Although you know when you get a good present and then you lose it its gutting.
TROY: Yeah, it’s really – risk – yeah, it’s certainly risky. It has not without its risk but it’s good fun.
ADAM: And last question on the Power Dads round, what one personal habit do you believe helps you be a better dad?
TROY: Um, personal habit? I‘d say personal trait is to tell stories. I think you – now that my kids are a bit older and 6 and 10, is that my kids love it when I tell them a story of when I was a goof. When I was kind of their age, or when I did something funny, or I did something stupid, or something fell over or I know you miss their age. But just when I was younger and something didn’t go as planned. I think maybe our dads would have seen that as weakness or that you want to sort of create this image that I am all knowing, all powerful all that kind of stuff. I am kind of undermining that a little bit and so saying you know, “life’s hard, you stuff things up, you make, does this, you trip over here you know, whatever. You pants fall down on a swimming competition, nobody’s perfect, even me. And I think that’s a trait to sort of make it funny and whatever. And you end up telling the story if they ask you 17 times in a row especially child, Dad, tell me again what happened!” you know? That’s – I think that’s really charming. One thing I 0 the inverse of that of if I can sort of give you sort of a double banger again mate is am shocking at crying at like Disney movies now. I don’t know what happened someone injected me when Matilda was born when I wasn’t looking or something like that. Because now any Pixar movie [murmuring] I don’t know if you’ve seen it like YouTube kind of viral video of a guy with his very seriously disabled daughter. You know blue chill or something, it’s a pretty serious condition and she was always some beauty competition or something and she was in a wheelchair and had no real awareness it seems of what was going on but he was sort of dancing around with her on the wheelchair and picked her up. And everyone who was in the crowd was cheering and oh, man I was an absolute mess. This is guy, if you have just seen this little girl. You know apparently she got some genetic issue which for the first two years of her life she was completely fine and then she really degenerated into now she’s 12 and have very little awareness. But towards the end she sort go with the biggest smile on her face and it’s oh my gosh, my weakness. I am as soft as they come, mate.
ADAM: Oh well you and me both. You got me going just from discussion on that. But I have thinking about the Tinkerbelle movies of late.
TROY: Yeah, I think you know what I mean, you can out it up on your sites man. I’ll tell you what. Whoo
ADAM: Yeah, yeah. Do send me that link that be really good. Well dads of the world I am sure you will agree we have had some huge value added out of Troy today.
ADAM: Huge. And we just got one question before we gather up some contact info and say goodbye.
ADAM: So Troy last question, what one thing would you tell your children to help them succeed in life.
TROY: I would tell them that they need to realise how other people – whenever people, are confident, or whenever people are nervous about themselves they might come across as though they don\t like you. And it’s not about you, it’s about them. A great example that I saw the other way, it’s a bit of a left field but I saw these little pugs that have been abused. Little pug dogs that have abused and sort of RSPCA have saved them or whatever. And I looked at these little pugs and I thought, “Those poor things probably blame themselves.” They’ve been kicked and set on fire and whatever have been done to these beautiful little animals. And these perfectly normal happy little animals have been treated like garbage from their owner. And those I just thought I bet those pugs think they deserved it, that they did something wrong or they weren’t handsome enough or whatever. Truth is that absolutely nothing to do with them it was their owner or whatever that was just like angry or cross or having a bad day or whatever. And not that you can ever excuse what had happened. But I just love the idea of people starting to recognise that when bad things happen to them it’s not because they deserve it or because they’re substandard it’s just actually almost always because the other person had a feel about themselves. So, I would love my kids to understand that.
ADAM: Love it Troy and a great way to end the show. So dads of the world, it has been a fantastic discussion with Troy Jones today and Tory give us some contact details on how the listeners can get a hold of you or get access to the Real Men Project
TROY: I would say best thing is to go to being dad. So B-E-I-N-G-D-A-D .com.au. And if you want the contact, that’s sort of the main site where there are the books and the DVD’s and that kind of stuff is there. And you can in touch with me that way. The other one is also The Real Men Project, which I am very excited about. If you can help me with that in terms of getting the word out or you got some great content or something you‘d love for me to share with the boys and their dads I would be thrilled if you could share it. So you can check that out. That’s realmenproject.com.au and just sort of contact me through that. There’s all the links and stuff there. I will be absolutely thrilled to hear from you.
ADAM: Fantastic and I too will have links on the firedupdads.com show notes for this episode. Dads of the world, thank you for listening today to myself and Troy Jones. I am sure you’ll agree it has been fantastic hearing the discussion about the Real Men Project and the trials and tribulations of dads from, a new angle such as Troy being a single father these days. So, dads of the world. Thanks for spending some time with me and Troy Jones today. Troy, thank you for giving us your time.
TROY: Thanks mate. Thanks for inviting me. I had a great time.