Part 2 of 2: Interview with Kobi Hirsch.
Kobi is a father of two, Ella (5) and Ari (2). Israeli born, he is an Engineer – Project Manager in Civil Construction. Living in Coffs with his wife Kara who is a Personal Trainer. Kobi recently started a Mens Group in Coffs Harbour – menswellbeing.org and is the President of the Executive Committee at his daughter’s school.
This episode is a fantastic deep dive into the mindset of a great father. We work across myriad of topics. It is a great interview with a fantastic man and father.
Transcription
ADAM:
Let’s talk a little more about this whole balance thing in your relationship, because you’ve described all of the things you’re doing; you’re an engineer, you’ve got your Men’s Work, you’ve got your presidency of the executive committee, and…
KOBI: My master’s.
ADAM:
…your masters, yeah, which you didn’t tell me at the start. And then you’ve got your wife who is also a highly sought after personal trainer that Fitness First are using all over the country to help them build their business. How do you manage, how do you balance all that together and how does that impact you, the fact that your wife’s business and career life is starting to take off?
KOBI:
Look, it’s an art. It certainly is an art. I think that based on all the answers I gave you before on how I balance my relationship that plays a key role. We prioritise and we talk about what we value, especially now the kids are young, and how we interlace what we want. So as corny as it may sound with Maslow’s Theory of the Human Needs, we talk about the needs; okay, well I’ve got a need to put food on the table. I’ve got a need for my personal development. I’ve got a need for intellectual development. I’ve got a need for family relations. My wife has her need for self-actualisation, for her personal development, for her family relations, for her travel wishes. And we articulate all that so we can then interlace it and make sure that it works and we are making sure that the kids don’t miss out, ‘because we are both hands on, we both support, we make sure that we make positive, good decisions with the kids. Excuse me. We talk about what education we want for them. We take ownership that most of the education they’re gonna get at home anyway so we are in the forefront of that. And we really dissect to the smallest possible way the elements of life and how to tackle them and how to deal with them. And if we disagree or if the situation is not right to make a decision then we come back for it later and we discuss it again and we just repeat that process.
ADAM:
Wow. Mate, you guys have got the ultimate. And I can see I’m gonna need to speak to you quite a lot more as I build my book. So fantastic, mate. I’m just loving everything you got to say. I’m sure the dads of the world are.
KOBI: Thank you.
ADAM:
Brilliant. So let’s keep it going. So we’re on the theme of balance at the moment. And we’ve talked about balancing your relationship, but let’s talk about balancing your career for a moment. You have described to us that you’ve got a lot on your plate, and so has your wife. So what do you think is the key to balancing career and family? And I think you’ve touched on it actually, but tell me again.
KOBI:
Okay. Look, everyone’s different in work arrangement. Some people are self-employed, some people are employees, some people work away. Everyone has their work and employment arrangement. I have created for myself quite a flexible work arrangement. I’m self-employed. I’ve got my own one-man company. I do consultancy as my project management role. And I think it’s important that when the workload is significant then to give it the appropriate focus. But to be balanced enough that when the workload has dropped, and at the moment my workload has dropped, then to give that extra focused energy, time, and space, to other areas of life. That gives an overall fair balance to all the aspects of life. So if, say, two-thirds of the year I put a big effort towards work, and I have, and I’ve done 10, 11, 12 hours a day at the time ‘because that’s what I wanted to do, and it’s not always about extra pay, it’s about pride in my work in covering all those aspects that I wanted and to feel valued at work. But now, for example, I’m averaging four days a week. Because the workload has dropped, my working environment has changed, the market has changed, so there’s less requirement for me. And rather than being upset that I’m losing two0% of my income, I am happy that I can invest more time in other avenues of life. So short term, I focus on what is most critical on hand. Long term, everything balances out because it just, it just does that.
ADAM: So it’s going with the ebbs and flows of life, really.
KOBI:
Yeah. And look, it’s important to me – I don’t, like I say I don’t want to argue with reality. I take any situation as it comes and try to make the best decision with the tools I’ve got.
ADAM:
Brilliant. And I think it comes back a bit to what you were talking about earlier right at the start with, that you really focused earlier on your prioritisation and that is the key. I mean, I personally have prioritised pretty poorly over the last five to seven years since my children come along and my career sort of lead the way and I’ve learnt the hard way. So I mean I think it’s fantastic that you identified that earlier on and got the priorities right and I encourage more dads out there to do it that way, which is great.
KOBI: If I can just squeeze into what you just said now and build and talk of that…
ADAM: Sure.
KOBI:
…the element of the Men’s Work that comes along with that is really mixing with other men that share their experiences. So I can hear the experiences of men that are older than me, have all the kids or no kids anymore, and that one0, two0, three0, four0 years older than me, and they share with me, “You know, this is what I’ve done and this is how it worked for me,” so I can reflect on that. And that’s the very good bonus of Men’s Work, and I then get all these free lessons so I can implement into my life in real time and to avoid some of the pit holes that other men did. One small example is time management, so I don’t wake up two0 years later on and think, “Where was all the time I could spend with my kids and I didn’t?”
ADAM:
Yeah, yeah. Brilliant, mate. And that’s the big one. I mean, that’s the one that you don’t wanna be waking up in two0, three years’ time and go on, “Yeah, I lost all that time with the kids” and your kids are no longer there or they’re not your friends the way that you would like it to be and you don’t have the relationship, so.
KOBI: Yes.
ADAM:
A great approach. Great approach. So wow. We are just really getting into some really big subjects tonight, Kobi, and it is brilliant. So let’s keep going. And now we’re into a really big one. What’s your biggest worry when it comes to your children? You’ve got – we’re early on, you and I, ‘because you know mine is seven, five, and six months. So we’re early into it and I usually find that the older dads, the dads who have children that are in their teens or even in their early two0s have a lot more anecdotal evidence to draw from on the real worries that come out in their life, ‘because right now you and I only sort of could speculate. But tell us about your biggest worry and what are you doing at this point in time, ‘because you seem to be on top of everything else. What are you doing to mitigate that concern at this point?
KOBI:
I think what I feel, is the biggest worry, is that my kids will make poor choices in their lives. I can’t control, I’m aware of that, I am unable to control what my kids – I can only instil what I believe, together with my wife, the good choices and good habits and good foundations of behaviour and conduct, about their own self-esteem, self-respect, health, relation, relating with other people, attitude to the environment, attitude to other people, to education, et cetera, to material. My biggest worry is, and I hear a lot of parents talk about it, that in some stage of either mid to late teenage or in their early two0s kids do a flip out and butt away everything that the parents instilled in them as part of the rebellion pit. My worry is that if they do that and if they make bad choices that might have long lasting effects. In order to eliminate or mitigate that I try my best, and my wife too, to build a trusting and deep honest relationship with them, with the kids. Ari’s two, Ella is five, and Ella is obviously in a more intellectual position to reciprocate that. To build that trust means that to always leave the door open. That no matter what life throws at her, at me, at my wife, at the family, and life does that, that the communication is open and it’s there to stay. So even if there are bad decisions made, the love will still be there by words, by feelings, and by actions; not just to say, “I support you,” and to not do that. So this is what, as a father I’m really adamant about keeping the, instilling foundation of communication between me and my kids so no matter what life presents they will know that they can come to me and have an honest and supportive opinion to hear, even if we may not agree all the time, and not to judge by that.
ADAM:
Wow. And from what you’ve said it will be pretty well represented by both sides of your family, with your wife and with yourself working so closely together on that.
KOBI:
Look, it’s a work in progress and it’s definitely a relationship. It’s a partnership that we do. If either myself or my wife don’t put in the same effort in the same direction kids pick on that. If I mistreats my wife in whichever way it may be, even if it’s in derogatory language, the kids pick on that and they realise that something is not right and they may just do that in their own lives and only then it’s gonna hit home. So it’s how my wife and I do it individually and together, which is the road to that success that we are on.
ADAM:
Brilliant. Deep. I like it. I like it. So out of that, and with the concerns, and that will lead nicely into the legacy question a bit later on, and that definitely is my favourite. I say it’s my favourite in every single episode, but that is my favourite question as I just love the answers that come out on that one. So we’ll get back to that slightly. But tell me, if you could change one thing in your life to help you be a better dad what would that be?
KOBI: To hook up with more dads and compare notes.
ADAM: Yeah.
KOBI:
To hear what other dads face. In like what you do with the podcast, it’s a great resource because it’s out there and it’s really, you distil it in a really good format. So to hear what other dads are competing with, because what my parents dealt with is different by generation, and by everything else that has evolved in the life that we live is different. So if I compare notes with men like myself and what they deal with in the relationship, in their parenting, in their work, in all the different environments, that’s the key for me to become better. And I’m not doing it enough. I can and I should do more of that and this is definitely something that, if I made that change it would improve the quality of my life.
ADAM:
Brilliant. And I think you’re right. The access to the other dads through the men’s group, and it’s something that we are, I think we’re getting a bit better at. We’ve always been quite an insular gender that has kept everything to ourselves. And we still are in a lot of ways, but at least some of us are getting out there and trying to improve, which is brilliant.
KOBI: Yeah.
ADAM:
So we’ve had some big discussions so far, Kobi. But now it’s time to really power up and I’m gonna turn up the heat. We’re into the power dad’s round. It’s six short questions and short answers. Are you ready?
KOBI: I am ready. Hit me.
ADAM: Perfect. What’s the perfect dad toy and why?
KOBI: I don’t have one, sorry.
ADAM: No way!
KOBI: The closest thing would be my laptop.
ADAM:
Yup. Well, you know it’s gotta be something out there. You were saying earlier that your wife wanted a new bike. I thought you might hit me with something like that.
KOBI: Sorry, no.
ADAM: No?
KOBI: I’ve had it when I was younger, but no.
ADAM: No?
KOBI: Not that I can think of.
ADAM:
Yeah. Easily looked-after, mate, which is fantastic. Just good. What about a tool website or book that you would recommend or that you’d give to people?
KOBI:
The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz, I’ll give you the actual link. Brilliant. I gave that book to my wife and I said, “This is how I think.”
ADAM: Love it.
KOBI:
And of course the menswork.org which is an association that I am a member of and there’s a lot of resources from there.
ADAM: Good work, good work. And I’ll get you to send me that link to that book.
KOBI: Yeah.
ADAM:
And to your Men’s Work, of course, after the show so that I can put them into the show notes, so. Fantastic.
KOBI: Sure.
ADAM: So how do you ensure you get some time for yourself, Kobi?
KOBI:
Okay. There’s another left of field answer here. I do it by – everything that I do I define it as an activity for me. So when I’m with my kids, it’s time for my enjoyment as a parent. When I’m sitting doing my work, I love what I do and that’s enjoying for me. When I support my wife in doing her activities, I’m doing it because I enjoy to support her. So really anything that I do is really for me, even if I am involving other people in that activity. And that works tremendously well for me.
ADAM:
Excellent. Excellent. You know, I was just thinking of myself, it’s a good thing this isn’t a single show, Kobi, because there would be so many women knocking on your door with this attitude. Fantastic. Your wife sounds like a very lucky lady, so. Brilliant.
KOBI: And so am I,
ADAM:
And a good response. Do you – and so talking about that, I’m gonna jump one question ahead. Do you and your family have a tradition that you maintain?
KOBI:
There’s not really that much. A bit coming from a Jewish background we light candles on Friday evenings.
ADAM: Yup.
KOBI:
And so, there’s times I do it with the kids. Because my wife and I, we come from two cultural backgrounds, then we have decided to give our kids a combined input so it validates and acknowledges both backgrounds. And that’s one thing that we have done, is to light candles on Friday evenings. We do it at times, not always. And that’s a nice moment for, it takes about two minutes and that’s a small, little ritual that actually the women leads, so my wife and daughter do it, and we do it altogether and that’s a really nice, precious little moments on Friday evenings.
ADAM:
Fantastic. Now just for the uninitiated, myself being one, is this an Israeli tradition or a Jewish tradition? Would other Jewish households be doing the same?
KOBI:
Yeah, this is a Jewish thing. It’s basically lighting two candles to welcome the Sabbath, which basically gets done by the older female in the household and it gets done just before the sun goes down.
ADAM: Love it. Love the cultural tradition in that. It’s fantastic. Yup.
KOBI: Thank you.
ADAM:
And I don’t think, yeah, like I personally don’t think we – and particularly when I say we, the western side of the world, have enough traditions and that’s really evidence from a lot of the answers that the dads that I interview give. A lot of the families don’t have traditions and I think it’s a really important part of bringing kids up. In saying that, we don’t have too many ourselves so it’s something I’m trying to drive a bit harder. But yeah, I think that’s a beautiful thing.
KOBI: Thank you. Thank you.
ADAM:
So we’ll jump back on the question on this there. What innovative trick do you have for the dads when it comes to discipline? Do you have one?
KOBI: I do, yes.
ADAM: Great.
KOBI:
When I’m – so it’s more with Ella at the moment, but with Ari it will come. When I negotiate with her, I know before I’m going into the negotiation what it is that I’m prepared to accept and what it is that is my boundary and the red line. So I will negotiate with her as high as I can and let her win in a way that I’m still gaining what it is that I want. So she feels like she won, but I also won what I wanted. So if say it’s a matter of watching TV or not, I will define for her, “Okay. There’s no TV unless you do this or that.” And she might say, “No, I really want to watch TV now.” And eventually when we come in to the middle ground it would be where she watches TV after she completes one or two tasks that were important to me, so that ticks the box for her, she’s happy ‘because she got the TV. It ticks the box for me because I got her to do what I wanted. So it’s that negotiation with knowing what are my cards and what I’m prepared to give and what I’m not.
ADAM: order Indocin online
Love that. Love the negotiation aspect. You’ve obviously read getting to yes or Getting Past No. Those two books are really ideal on the negotiation front. But you’ve taken it to a point where I’m obviously gonna have to keep this show going for over one0 years, ‘because I’m keen to come back to your teenage years and see if that’s still working for you, so yeah.
KOBI: Thank you.
ADAM:
Brilliant. So last question in the power dads round. What do you believe the one personal habit that helps you be a better dad?
KOBI:
Lead by example, hands down. Kids read us, feel us, look at us, copy us. Whether we like it or not, whether we realise or we don’t realise that, they are just a carbon copy of our behaviour. I hold myself highly accountable to what I do, say, think, feel, ‘because I’m one00% sure that that’s what they will learn from me. So when I care of myself, when I take care of myself, they look at it and they see that. When I’m selective with my language, they will see that and they’ll copy that. When I hold myself with high self esteem, they will take that, too. And that works very well. So as an example, when I tell my daughter, when I tell Ella, “I love you,” I grab her nice and gently and I say to her, look in the eyes, and then I say, “I love you.” And I say to her when you tell someone you love them, first what do you do? You look to the eyes. So that connection of eye to eye is about self esteem and delivering a direct message of whatever the message is.
ADAM:
Beautiful, mate. I love that. Great message to give and a great way to end the power dads round.
KOBI: Very powerful.
ADAM:
Yeah. Yeah, no short answers. They’re quite good in some instances, yeah. Except, you know, like you and I just did we got carried away on a couple of them and they led into long answers but that’s all fine.
KOBI: Yeah.
ADAM:
So we’re now at my favourite, alright. We’re finally there. The third favourite in this catch up. But the legacy question. So tell me, what one thing would you tell your children to help them succeed in life?
KOBI:
Mean every word that comes out of your mouth. My words represent me. And other people hear me and they judge me how my actions add up to my words. And that’s the most important thing that is important to me, is my word. So I would tell my kids, I already do, but it would be relevant to their age, mean what you say. If you don’t wanna say it, that’s fine. But put value against every single words that come out of your mouth.
ADAM:
That is a huge one, Kobi. And you’ve blown me away with that one. You’ve blown me a way. It’s a brilliant one because it’s, it’s something I’m really trying to push with my kids is to slow down and think about what they’re doing and think about, or more importantly what we’re telling them.
KOBI: Yeah.
ADAM:
And I think it’s a bit of a reflection in our communication as well and so obviously there’s a bit of work my wife and I have to do on the communication side, but it’s that whole listening to what’s being said and then speaking appropriately in accordance with that and adding to the conversation, so yeah. You were gonna say something?
KOBI:
Some people – I was gonna say some people have the attitude of “Do as I say, not as I do” and that doesn’t work with kids. Because kids just keep their picture, whatever they absorb and that’s what they do. And then a lot of people say, and rightfully, that talk is cheap. It’s easy to just blurb words out. The value and the respect to people is when I see someone doing in line with what they said. And in everyday life it doesn’t matter what relationship I have with whom, in whichever environment. I judge people on how their actions add up against their words. And I do it first and foremost to myself ‘because I like to lead by example and I tell people where, I tell people, “You would do me the biggest service if you come and respectfully tell me, ‘Listen, Kobi, you said A but you delivered B. You said you were gonna do this, but your actions don’t line up.’” And I will look them in the face and I will say, “Thank you. You just helped me to become a better man.”
ADAM:
And what a great way to segue out of the show tonight. I love it, Kobi. What an interview. What an interview. I can’t wait to get this one to air. It’s just a shame, it’s a shame I’m a good six to eight weeks away from it going to air, ‘because it is one of the best. And you have had some really good, deep dive stuff into their. So I can’t thank you enough for being my guest today.
KOBI:
I would like to thank Glen Leman that introduced me to Fired Up Dads and for recommending me to get in touch with you. I love every moment I had been speaking with you.
ADAM:
Brilliant, brilliant. Glen’s interview was a while back, so it was a couple of episodes ago. So he’s already gone to air. But yeah, fantastic guy Glen. And his wife, too, is a personal trainer. So there was probably some influence from your wife there, no doubt, which is fantastic and yeah, Rachel and Glen, fantastic couple. We’re actually getting together with them in six week’s time, part a house in Noosa and another couple that have three kids as well. So it’s a huge, sixteen of us in the house for a week. It’s gonna be mayhem but it’s a fantastic time of the year. We do it every year, which is great, so.
KOBI:
Beautiful. I can highly recommend ‘because we had been sharing a house with them on one of the beaches here a few months ago and it was great.
ADAM:
Yeah. Brilliant. Brilliant. And I look forward to discussing some of the content that both came out of yours and his interviews, which is fantastic.
KOBI: Sure.
ADAM:
But anyway, Kobi, thank you so much for being my guest today. It’s been a blast talking family matters with you. And I’m sure the dads of the world have got some massive stuff out of it. But before –
KOBI: Thank you for having me.
ADAM:
Yeah, no, my pleasure. So before we say goodbye though, tell us one final tip for the dads of the world and then we’ll say goodbye.
KOBI:
Final tip, gee. Well, about time really is – time management is priority. There is no such thing as “I can’t.” There is only “I won’t.” That will be a big one. The other stuff I’ve mentioned before, but really I – there’s no such thing in my language as “I cannot.” There is only, “I choose to” or “I choose not to.”
ADAM: Yup.
KOBI: So then there’s just no excuse. I hold myself accountable.
ADAM: I love that saying. Yeah, I’m forever telling my kids that there’s no such word as “I can’t.” Yeah. You just choose not to. Yeah. And a great way to end, Kobi. So thanks again for joining me today on Fired Up Dads. Dads of the world, I hope you enjoyed the show. Head on over to firedupdads.com and you can get the show notes from Kobi and we’ll put in there the Men’s Work stuff and the books that he mentioned and all the other resources that you have available to you. Thanks again for spending time with the dads of the world. And Kobi Hirsch…
KOBI: Hirsch.
ADAM: …yeah, see look at that. Even though I’m this fast I still couldn’t get it right, mate. I do apologise. But once again, thank you Kobi. Have the best day and we look forward to seeing you next time on Fired Up Dads.
KOBI: Thank you very much. Have a good night.
Contact Details:
kobi_hirsch@hotmail.com
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